Interviewer: So, tell me a little bit about yourself.
Vexx: My name is Vexx. My partner and I got here to Victoria a couple months ago and one of the things we were looking for was stuff to keep us physical, meeting people—I come from a background of playing a lot of roller derby and doing a lot more intense sports and I wasn’t too sure if that was out here. I was waith some friends and a friend of a friend was mentioning that they were looking for somebody who was into top roping as a partner. I was like, “Shit, I’ve always wanted to do this.” I’ve had some former partners in the past who always promised to take me and like, that always fell through, so right now that’s a sign from the gods—spelled g-a-w-d-s—to give it a shot. I thought I was insane when I did this. I came down here and met your lovely self and everybody else, spent the money, and had my intro thing. It was really nice. The people who were doing the Beginner Lesson were super good, and the instructor was amazing.
I: Who did you do it with?
V: Lil’ guy, long hair—
I: Eric.
V: —nice smile…
I: True.
V: It was killer. The first couple times, I was so scared and so nervous at the beginning. By the end of it, it was like I had been doing it my whole life. I got up and down the beginner wall twice. It was really neat because you’re on the wall and you’re looking up to it, and everyone in my group is like “We’re all afraid of heights” and they’re six-foot something. I’m like, “No, wait, I am not scared of heights! I have never been scared of heights!” So I am just scrambling up and I’ve got no self-preservation instincts at all.
I: [laughs] Yeah, no. That can be helpful for climbing.
V: No, yeah. That was great. It’s sort of like the same kind of buzz you get when you’re jamming in roller derby. That anticipation: you don’t know what’s going to happen, but whatever happens, you’re not responsible for it, you’re responsible for how you react to it. That’s kind of what’s pushing me. I wouldn’t say I’m fearless—I am a little scared. But I want to keep doing it until there’s zero fear and one-hundred percent confidence. There’s that. I mean, in terms of myself, I’m a Virgo-Leo cusp; that kind of goes with the “I want to do something dangerous and outlandish,” but then there’s also the practical side to it, too.
I: That makes sense.
V: And everyone I’ve met here has been so fucking cool. Like, I’ve met people who have been job references for me. I have met people who have taken me around town. I have joked around with people in the changeroom and stuff like that. They’ve made me feel really welcome. I’ve only been here two weeks!
I: Wait—in the gym?
V: In the gym! I had a job reference from one of the climbers, they called up their boss and put my name in.
I: That’s amazing!
V: Yeah!
I: It does feel like you’ve been here longer.
V: It does. Like, my trial membership is still valid! It’s actually ending today! It was two weeks ago I started. So yeah, that’s been really, really great. I love the drop-in hours, I love the vibe, I love the staff here. I cannot say enough good things about everybody.
I: It’s a lot of what also got me here.
V: You’re not posers, there’s no judgment, it’s warm, it’s friendly. It’s sort of like… anti-Starbucks. I say this because I used to work there and they teach you and train you to have connections with people, but it’s not legit. You don’t give a fuck about these people at the end of the day like the staff here do. You can see it in the way they talk to you, the way they treat others. It’s a big thing because I was nervous and scared when I first showed up, so I hung off in the back and I wanted to see how people were treating one another. I was like, “Oh my gosh, this is so warm and accepting and community-oriented. This is not what I was expecting at all.” I was expecting high intensity, dude-bros and crossfit and kale, and it’s just the exact opposite.
I: It’s nice that I started climbing here before I worked here. I started eight years ago, and I was not an athletic kid at all. I was seventeen, finishing up highschool, and I was super nervous because I’ve always underperformed in athletics. I came in here, I was climbing 5.9s, 5.10s, and a bunch of muscular dudes around me were like, “Fuck yeah, send it!” I was like, “I just saw you doing a 5.12a and you’re hyping me up the same amount.” That’s kind of insane and I can’t think of a different sport that’s the same way.
V: The guy who became the job reference, he got stuck so I started yelling encouragement and I’m like, “You’re valid! You’re so valid! You don’t have to prove anything to anyone! I believe in you!” and all I hear is this voice that comes down like God, “Wait, I am valid. You’re right. I don’t have to prove myself. Why the hell am I up here?!” and then he starts coming down! I was howling because that was not what I was trying to do! [laugh]
I: [laugh] You motivated him so much that he realised he didn’t need to be doing this.
V: He was like, “I don’t need to prove anything to anyone. I’m turning my life around.” So that was great.
I: That’s hilarious.
V: So yeah, I got here. Tried it out. I’m making friends. And also it’s also really improved my boxing. I was the chubby, artistic kid who all through highschool, nobody would talk to. So the fact that I’m in the best shape according to my doctor right now—he says I’m obscenely healthy, and it’s boxing and rock climbing a few times a week. I’m actually noticing the improvement on that. I’ve got a personal trainer on the other day. So, I’m working on that.
I: Do you think that you’ll do roller derby again? I think there’s a few places here for that.
V: There’re a lot, but you know, it’s really hard on the knees. I don’t miss that part of it. It’s a huge time commitment, whereas with rock climbing, I can swing by and do as much as I want. Boxing is the same thing. They also compliment each other really well. Victoria is great, Crag X is—honestly, it was really intimidating coming in here at first, but it’s one of my favourite places. If I don’t show up a couple times a week, I feel off.
I: Yup, I have the exact same thing. I was worried that when I started working here I wouldn't climb here as much, but I’ve been trying to prioritise and schedule in time for myself and I find that thinking of it as both a workspace and a space where I can challenge myself personally is pretty easy. It can become two different spaces that I enjoy because it’s so nice.
V: I worked retail places that sold things I loved and engaged in hobbies I enjoy and I just hated being there. You’re so burnt out that the thing that you loved and that nourished you is nothing to you. You’re like, “Let me out of here.”
I: Yeah, that’s a terrible feeling. One of the nice things before working here was seeing that people who work here also still hang out here in their off-time. I’ve never worked at another place where that’s true.
V: I’ve never worked at a place where I wanted to see people outside of work, either. I guess… anything else about me? I’ve done a lot. I’ve worked in PR, I’ve worked in education. Weirdly enough, I was on the clergy track for nearly ten years before I walked away and became a card-carrying, pagan swatch watch. I’ve done night security, house jobs, I’ve done entrepreneurship, I’ve done the corporate stuff, I’ve done the respectable education stuff. I’m at the point where I just have no fucks to give. And I think that’s one thing where rock climbing is one of the most honest experiences I’ve got. The wall just doesn’t give a fuck about you. If you make it up half the wall, you made it up half the wall. It’s not gaslighting you. If you make it up less or more, that’s not a reflection on the wall. That’s the truth. It will always be the same amount of challenge. It’s honest. It’s an honest experience and I love that about it. It’s like a fifty pound dumbbell, a forty pound dumbbell, a five pound dumbbell: it’s not going to lie to you, it’s not going to coddle you, but it’s going to let you know when you’ve earned it. That’s why I keep coming back. It’s a really beautiful thing. It’s actually a really healthy relationship… Oh my god, does that mean the wall is my mommy?
I: The wall is mommy.
V: Or daddy, or whoever wears the hat. It’s the thing though, right? I appreciate that. I don’t get a lot of that in my life—I don’t think anyone gets a lot of that in their lives. But I get what you’re saying. We’re becoming friends—at least, I think we are becoming friends, otherwise, you’re playing the long game with me and I don’t know what because I don’t have anything to offer you in any capacity. I’m not rich, I’m not even pretty!
I: I don’t know how to play the long game.
V: I didn’t even know there were rules to the game!
I: Does the game exist? I don’t know.
V: Oh my god, is this like one of those things where you talk about the game you automatically lose the game?
I: Fuck.
V: We just lost.
I: Well, you know, that was par for the course.
V: Yeah. What are you anyways? You’re not a Pisces.
I: Taurus.
V: That explains it.
I: Aries moon.
V: Yeah, okay. Virgo-Leo cusp, Moon and Lillith in Pisces.
I: Oh, Moon in Pisces? Fuuuun.
V: Yeah, I know. It’s a New Moon tonight. I got shit to do.
I: Do you find that it affects the emotions?
V: Absolutely. New Moons I’m at my worst, Full Moons I’m at my best.
I: Oh yeah, what are your pronouns by the way?
V: When I’m at work they/them, when I’m not at work they/she. I get tired of educating people because people are dumb.
I: The only way I can define my gender is “Bugs Bunny”. You know, where he just puts on costumes for different situations.
V: Yeah, no, 100%. A lot of trans people I know are binary trans and I’m not. Some people transition towards something, some people transition away from something. I’m in that category. I’m a non-binary transfem tomboy. I’m not into dresses, I’m not really into makeup but I have done it from time to time, but I like my rough sports. I like being most people’s bigger sister when it comes to that. I’m very comfortable with who I am. I turned down a really good job because I wouldn’t change my hair and take out my piercings. It was a very good job and I told them before, during, and after the interview that I wouldn’t adhere to the dress code. I stopped the interview halfway through and said, “Be honest, what do you think of me?” and they gushed and said they wanted to hire me. They sent me an email then, saying: “But you won’t capitulate to the dress code.” So I said, “No, I won’t. When you make those changes that you dream of, get back to me and we can pick up these conversations.”
I: Subduing yourself for a job is hellish.
V: There is no paycheque worth dysphoria.
I: I love hearing about your life, but I’m gonna ask some more climbing-related questions. What are some goals and how has your experience been now as you go through the beginnings of climbing?
V: First, I’ll start with the barriers to it: cost. Seventy dollars for me was a lot of money. But, seventy dollars and a two-week membership… That's not bad. I can justify that. After the Beginner Lesson, I got hooked. I went down to the climbing store and they price-matched a bunch of things and took pity on me and cut me some really good deals so that I could actually afford good gear. That meant a lot. Goals? Oh, God. Three main goals: one, definitely increase my grip strength. There will be times when I feel like I’ve got the endurance but I physically cannot hold on anymore. That’s just repetition. Another one, I’ve got a personal grudge against this one wall—
I: Which one?
V: It’s the one with the auto-belay. I keep getting stood up! It’s the one in the corner.
I: Oh the flat wall! I saw you working that one.
V: Yeah. I didn’t know that you could climb on the white wall, too—
I: No!
V: Someone said “Grab the orange one” and I said “But it’s on the white wall” and they said “Yeah, you can use that.” I’m like, “WHAT?!”
I: That is so, so upsetting.
V: It was actually Khaled who I came up to with troubles and said that I was struggling and he gave me one-on-one, twenty-five minutes worth of technique tips and it hugely helped. So, my goals are: increase my strength and get to the point where I can get to the top of the wall. I don’t care if it’s on the easiest level, I want that so bad. The rookie wall for beginners, I was up and down it twice and I was so proud of myself. So, I want that. The other one is, honestly, I actually want to be the best version of myself when I come here. Not just beat the wall and do the physical shit, but I’m getting to know a lot of people and I really like them. I want to be the person who when someone asks for a belay I can do that. I want to be approachable and to be a better version of me and I think this is one way that I can do that. And that’s why I keep coming back. Sometimes I get intimidated, sometimes I say stupid shit, sometimes I get frustrated. But the more I come here, the more I get over that, and that’s what is helping me.
I: Sometimes you’re just in a shit mood, but I find getting here, doing your first climb—you’re gonna have shit days. Shit sessions that don’t go well and you don’t meet any of your goals. But I always find that when I leave, no matter my performance, I recognise that it’s only stuff I put on myself. I got to spend a couple hours with people I like doing an activity I love in a place that I want to be in. It’s really helpful for recalibrating when you’re in a horrible torrent.
V: Right, and that’s life. Life has always got those really strange, messed up lottos that will pull you down and blindside you, especially at two a.m. on a Tuesday morning, say. You don’t know what will happen, but the wall is consistency. The people here are consistency. And that’s really good. That’s what I need, that’s what I want, that’s what I want to be a part of… It sounds like a cult.
I: [laugh]
V: It’s such a weird sport when you think about it. Everyone pushes the gym and pushes weight lifting and I did that for years, and don’t get me wrong, I still enjoy that, but this is different. It’s different because I don’t have to think when I’m at the gym, but I will get up to a section of the wall and I feel like someone superimposed me into one of the Saw movies.
I: [laugh] Do you want to play a game?
V: “We have six coloured rocks in front of you at varying degrees of difficulty. Your arms are giving out. You’ve sought to reach such great heights, but now time is ticking. Choose wisely.” and I start to be like, “Oh, fuck! What do I do?! I can’t put my feet here, but if I put my arm—” and you start to try and figure things out. I understand why those people died in those movies. I get it.
I: It makes sense. When you’re making flash decisions like that… it’s 50/50, baby. You’re gonna fall off at some point.
V: If you’re lucky. 30 percent “This is a good idea,” 30 percent “This is a bad idea,” 30 percent “How fucking desperate am I right now?!”
I: The desperation. I forgot to factor that in. It’s desperate out here.
V: Your brain is convinced that there’s a pit of sharks down there.
I: I feel that I have a pretty good head game for lead, but certain walls, certain moves, make it feel eight times harder. As though you just couldn’t possibly move two inches upward. Trying to get over those hurdles, I feel, has to be good for your brain.
V: It drives me nuts because some people are just so tall and can do the range, and other people who are shorter, like me, are light. So they can just go up. I’m short and I’m dense and it’s frustrating to work with that. But I’m also learning that that strength is a good thing, too.
I: That’s another beautiful thing about climbing, though, is that everyone brings their own set of strengths and weaknesses to it—
V: 100%.
I: —and you get to develop and discover yours as you go through it.
V: Yeah. In terms of goals, those are the main things. In terms of long-term, I just want to keep coming here to the point that I can just show up one day, beat the basic levels, and move onto the next levels—like a video game. In terms of future barriers that are facing me right now… The only thing that I’m immediately facing is just experience and coming down and doing it. That’s it. There’s also a kind of zen here that I don’t get—I get flow states from different sports—but the flow state I get from climbing is really different. It’s very soothing. Joking about the Saw movies and the desperation, it’s actually really soothing when you figure out what’s going on. That’s kind of where I’m at for that. I’m recovering from a ton of injuries: two years ago I broke my leg in a derby game—got MVP for that night, but I broke it—and then I had gender surgery the following year. Six months after that, I had a hernia surgery, so most of my internal organs are atrophied and scarred pretty badly. So this is me healing myself. Two years ago I couldn’t walk. It took eight months to relearn how to walk.
I: Shit, you’re doing really good so far. Your progress is really good. There are a lot of beginners who come in here and they last quite a bit longer in that stage of getting over fear and pushing themselves, but I feel like you’re already over that and are at the stage of reaching new heights.
V: Thanks! That track I broke my leg on? After I healed and I was good to put my skates back on, I quit my regular derby team and I went and joined the team that trains at that arena because I knew if I didn’t get over that fear, it would haunt me forever. Two practises a week and I trained on that track, on that spot where I broke my leg, because I had something to prove. It’s the same thing here.
I: That’s really cool. Just throwing yourself at a difficult experience. Okay, last question I have for you: Do you have any words of wisdom or anything you’d like to share with anyone just getting into climbing or beginning to climb here?
V: Okay… I’m trying to word this in a way where I don’t sound like a self-help book… Normally I’d say something very cliche, like “Trust the process,” or “Be gentle with yourself,” but honestly, that’s bullshit and not helpful. It’s fun. That’s it: it’s fun. It’s fun to do this, to meet people, to throw yourself at something… It’s fun to be challenged, it’s fun to face your fears, it’s fun to have a bad day and still feel like you’ve accomplished something. It’s fun and that’s why I do it. You can give me all the reasons in the world about why I should or I could or I ought to. The truth of it is that it doesn’t matter to me because if something isn’t fun, I’m not going to do it.
I: Yup. If you don’t enjoy it, just get rid of it. Find something you do enjoy. It’ll give you so much more in life if you do that.
V: That’s it. But do try this. Try this at least twice: once to figure it out and twice to see if you get a flavour for it. That’s usually what it takes.
I: Awesome. That is perfect. Thanks for talking with me.
V: Thanks for talking with me, it was fun. Hah, callback.
I: [laughs]
